The Story Behind Multiply

Francis Chan:

See, I’d love to hear from your perspective why, and what got you to this point. When we met and stuff, I want to know what was going on in your mind.

The Lord Uses Bad Circumstances for Good

David Platt:

Yeah well, thinking back, even before I started pastoring the church where I pastor now, the Lord used some circumstances overseas in particular. And then I was living in New Orleans doing a lot of evangelism and disciple-making on the streets of New Orleans. And the Lord was burning in my heart, all right, make disciples of all nations. This is what life is about.

And what I was doing at that point was I was serving on staff kind of part-time at a church, but I was doing a lot of traveling. And I found myself kind of criticizing the church because, hey we need to make disciples of all nations. And I found myself kind of corrective.

Well then God uses a variety of circumstances including flooding our home in Hurricane Katrina to lead us to where I started pastoring at this church. And then it was a whole different perspective then. Now I was on the inside of this megachurch machine, for lack of a better term, and thinking through now from the inside, all right, I can’t just be corrective here.

I need to, how am I going to shepherd these people to make disciples? Here I am in a church that has so many programs. We got buildings, we got stuff, we got comfortable Christianity, in so many ways, that ignores the call of Christ in many ways.

And so then I began going through a process personally in my own life, all right, what is this look in my life, in this culture and this context? And then how do I shepherd this person to put disciple-making the center of all we do?

How do we get a laser focus amidst all these things that can distract us in the church? How can we get a laser focus on leading people to Christ and teaching them to follow Christ in such a way that they lead people to Christ and teach people to follow Christ? And we multiply the gospel.

Not just create more services, add more buildings, look in many ways, successful in the church culture of which we’re a part, but to make it smaller and say, how do we get however many thousand people who are gathering here for worship, every one of them, making disciples who are making disciples, making disciples. So that’s, that’s been driving me as a pastor, which was really exciting.

And I was working on some different things as the overflow. Even when I wrote Radical, one of the chapters in there is on disciple-making. And I want to expand that and really work through that. I think that’s what I really want to focus on in my life and ministry, both in Brook Hill as the church I pastor, and then beyond.

And so I was thinking through all kinds of different ways. What does this look like in my life, ministry? And so I was wrestling through those kinds of things when you and I first met. So given the background that led to when you and I first met, you’d obviously been on a journey where you’d left Cornerstone in Simi Valley and gone overseas. So what was your journey? Where were you in that process?

Francis Chan:

Yeah, see, in my mind, I’ve always wrestled with reading this book and going, gosh, this is exciting. There’s so much to it. These people are hardcore and they got to experience God. And seeing some of that as I led kind of a similar big church, but also a sense in which there was something new that…

I just think I’ve got to be all about the kingdom. How can I affect, and have the biggest impact during my time here on Earth? And looking at the church and feeling like, man, there’s a lot of good leaders here and I think this place is going to be fine and maybe even do better without me because there’d be less of a reliance on me and more of a man, you guys all are so gifted. Like the spirit is in, you can go out and make disciples. I don’t need to lead someone to the Lord for you. But maybe there’d be an increase in that.

But also there’s this other side of just something lacking in my life. I see the commitment that they had in scripture, the way that these people would give anything to the Lord. And I was finding myself getting a little comfortable. And then hearing all these stories of people overseas.

You know when you talk about the church that multiplies and people are out making disciples. You hear about it in China, the underground church, and how it just exploded. And it seems like all of these individuals just had this faith like I could go and make disciples.

So I just wanted to see it. And even as a family, we’re just open to maybe that’s where we’re supposed to move to. Maybe we’re supposed to move to India. Maybe I just don’t fit here. And I don’t know, I was just a little confused and I just wanted the real thing. I wanted to see the real thing. And not that everything here is fake, but I felt like I saw bits and pieces, but there was just something more.

And so as I was out there and did see a commitment level and intensity that I needed to be encouraged by and to learn from by my brothers overseas. There was just this overwhelming sense that I needed to go back to the States, back to where I had relationships already.

And that I maybe hadn’t said everything or maybe hadn’t led the people that I loved into this. I can’t even describe it. It just seemed like the Lord was saying there was more in this area of discipleship that I needed to, I need to finish the course here before we moved there.

I mean, we were in Hong Kong already looking for apartments and just really sensing, I think this is it. I think this is it. And then just this conviction, no, you’re not done. There are a couple more things I’m supposed to do in the States before I go anywhere. And so it’s let me ride out this wave, and it’s this issue of discipleship.

So when I met you and so many people gave me your book before I left. They’re like, have you read this? I mean, I was given several copies. Have you read this yet? Have you read this? Because they just felt like our heartbeat was the same.

David Platt:

Yeah, because people were asking me, did you not read Crazy Love? He wrote the same thing. And I hadn’t read it, at that point, but obviously read it, yes.

Obey God’s Call

Francis Chan:

Yeah, and I had told the Lord when I was in Hong Kong, I don’t want to try to force anything and recruit. And so God, if this is really something you’re calling me to, then you bring people to me. And so when I saw you, at the first event I was back at in Atlanta, you were there, which was a surprise because I’d read your book, but I didn’t know you.

And when I asked you, hey what’s the Lord leading you to do? What’s the next step? And when you said discipleship and you talked about creating some sort of way to equip people with material or curriculum, I just was like, wow that’s really weird.

That’s the same thing the Lord put on my heart. And then when you suggested, well maybe we aren’t supposed to do two different things, maybe we’re supposed to do one together. And that was the same thing that was burning in my heart. And I think we’re both, I don’t want to say too much, but I’m thinking this. Maybe we should partner in this, this, and this. And I don’t know. I still don’t know where it’s going exactly. It’s just trying to be faithful to that.

David Platt:

Well and really, I think you and I would both say, even what we wrote in Crazy Love or Radical, it’s not like there’s anything new in there. It’s just, it’s stuff, it’s the truth from the word. It’s the same journey. What you said earlier is exactly, do I believe this book? And are we really following the Jesus of the Bible?

But I think so many people are asking those same questions and see the same disconnect in our lives and oftentimes see the same disconnect in the church of which we are a part. So now that it’s outside of us, this is inside of us. And so it resonated. And that’s, I think, the same thing is true when it comes to disciple-making.

I mean to see you and me as we talk with different pastors. There’s a level of conviction, there’s a level of humility that says, yeah man, we’ve gotten so caught up in doing all kinds of stuff, but we’re missing the main thing. So how can we get back to the main thing? And so even as you and I have been talking, it’s by no means it’s felt like we’re creating something.

It’s more, yeah, the Lord is doing this and the church is doing it in our lives, and so how can we be serious about obeying what he is saying has said so clearly and is saying so clearly in our day.