Kylen Perry’s Urgent Message To The Next Generation

Kylen Perry:
I fear living a life that doesn’t matter, man. He is the realest thing in reality; there is no realer than the God that created it all. How do you get near to it? It’s simply …

Kylen Perry:
So, it’s become a running joke with my team; there are several of us at The Porch, but the running joke is that I continue to get woken up by God in the middle of the night, and it seems like, in the wee hours of the morning, He often just wants to impart something to me. At this point, it’s probably begun to drum up some skepticism of like, “Okay, man, is this really the way God works?” and yet it’s crazy; just a couple nights ago, it happened to me again. It had been a minute since it had happened.

David Platt:
In dreams, or just you wake up in the middle, and you’re thinking something?

Kylen Perry:
No, just I’ll wake up, and I’m like, “Is this insomnia?” But it’s crazy.

David Platt:
Okay.

Kylen Perry:
So, just as an example, so two nights ago after The Porch, so we’ve just wrapped a Tuesday evening, and some messages come so easily, but others are just a labor of love and, for whatever reason, this one was the most laborious. I think it was 26 hours in total prep to get to the evening. I think I read through the entire manuscript for the first time 45 minutes before I preached it, and it was just … And it wasn’t like, “Oh, I got a new thought from God,” it was just tough sledding to get across the finish line. So, it’d be an amazing evening; God is so gracious to use very imperfect people to declare a perfect message.

David Platt:
Yes, amen.

Kylen Perry:
And we got to the end of it, I go home, I’m wiped, I eat dinner because I never eat before I preach, I’m fearful, might be gassy, and yet I get home and, man, it’s awesome. I go to sleep, I am eager for rest, and at 2:39 in the morning, just three hours after I’d finally closed my eyes, I wake up, and my heart is racing like crazy to the point where … And I’ve never done this, but I actually clocked my heartbeat. I was like, “Man, am I having a heart attack? What’s happening?” because I could feel it without touching my chest. So, I pace it out, check the BPMs, and it’s fine; no need to overreact, Kylen, but it was just so clear to me I was wide awake in bed.
And so, I’m lying there knowing that I’ve been in this spot before and I’m like, “Okay, God, is there something then that you want to talk to me about because I’d love to go to sleep if not.”

David Platt:
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah, real.

Kylen Perry:
It’s been a great but a long evening, and yet what I prayed is I was like, “God, would you pour into my heart whatever’s in yours?” And what I sensed God give me, because it came over me as a rush of emotion, and I’m a passionate person, so it’s not unfounded for me to tear up, and yet I understood very clearly what David meant when he said my tears have been my food day and night.

David Platt:
Whoa.

Kylen Perry:
Because it felt like that moment, because I was crying, trying not to wake up my wife, but I’m crying, laying my head on my pillow because I feel like the Lord is imparting to me this thought of, man, I’m so saddened by the state of disenchantment within my church. And so, as I start to think through, well, then God, would You lead me to your Scripture? Would your words substantiate these feelings? I was taken to Mark 6 when Jesus is in his hometown, and he’s amongst those whom he’s grown up with, and it says he could do no mighty works there, and he marvelled. The second time only he ever marvels in the Scripture, and yet, though the first was for someone’s belief, this time it’s because of their disbelief.
And I think he was imparting to me in that moment, and I’m praying and testing this still, so it’s funny to do this now on your podcast; I’m sorry to hijack it.

Austin Huang:
No, this is great.

David Platt:
No, Bro.

Austin Huang:
We need this.

Kylen Perry:
But I think he was trying to impart to me, Kylen, your room is a room full of people that have grown up with me. And though they know me, they do not believe in me. There’s a spirit of disbelief in Dallas, and I need you to do something about it. So, yeah, crazy story just a couple nights ago-

David Platt:
Wow.

Kylen Perry:
… but it felt so kind to the Lord. And so, Porchies, if you’re watching this, we’re going to take the next sermon series after we wrap Genesis, and we’re going to push it to later in the year because we’re going to actually step into this specific topic. I don’t know necessarily what it’s going to look like, but we’re going to talk about the disbelief of Dallas and maybe people that have grown up with him.

David Platt:
Wow. Bro, that’s a great place to start.

Kylen Perry:
Cool.

Austin Huang:
Yeah, what a story.

David Platt:
By the way, we’re talking with Kylen Perry from The Porch. He’s already mentioned Porchies; you all call people Porchies?

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, that’s what we call them.

Austin Huang:
I’ve never heard that one.

Kylen Perry:
… we hold on to it.

David Platt:
And The Porch is?

Kylen Perry:
It’s a gathering of young adults in the city of Dallas, but man, there’s young adults gathering across the nation in Porch live locations, 20- and 30-somethings that … Psalm 27:4, man, they want to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord, and they want to seek to know him personally.

David Platt:
And almost every Tuesday night, you’re speaking to those here in Dallas and then in other places.

Kylen Perry:
That’s right. Yup, yup.

David Platt:
Yeah. And you’ve been doing that for how long?

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, I’ve been here at The Porch; this is now the start of my third year. January 2024 was my start, so I’ve been the executive director since that time, but I’ve been around young adults for close to a decade now.

Austin Huang:
Crazy young.

David Platt:
It’s good.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah.

David Platt:
So, I don’t know when this will air, so hopefully, by the time this airs, maybe Porchies have totally turned upside down with their faith, so maybe. But just a couple weeks ago, bro, I started a sermon with that exact text.

Kylen Perry:
No way.

David Platt:
Yes. Those two texts. When Jesus marvels at someone for their faith, I’ve not found such faith, He marvelled and then I would … Yeah, that line … Because I was preaching, I was actually preaching on Ephesians 3:20–21, now to him who is able to do far abundantly, far more abundantly than all we can ask or think according to the power at work within us and it was like, “Do we really believe this?” I want … So, that was the question, what would Jesus be more likely to marvel at my faith or my lack of faith, and, man, that’s a good word.

Kylen Perry:
What a haunting question.

David Platt:
Yes.

Kylen Perry:
That scripture haunted me. And so, you go, and you look at … Mark 5 is famous because … Really the end of Mark 4 when Jesus calms a storm and then the demoniac and the bleeding woman in…

David Platt:
It’s like a quadruple back to back to back to back, amazing. It just culminates with this healing somewhere or raising somebody from the dead.

Kylen Perry:
Yes. And it’s like, oh, my gosh, believe in this guy, look at his authority over everything. And yet, in each of those stories, what’s fascinating is, in calming the storm, he looks at his disciples, and he says, “Why are you afraid? Oh, you have little faith,” so there’s disbelief. And then you see the demoniac and the townspeople, after this man is cleansed of this demon, for fear of him, they send him away, disbelief. And then you get to the bleeding woman, and there’s a crowd reaching for him, but only one person actually touches him.

David Platt:
Yeah, the whole crowd, that’s so crazy.

Kylen Perry:
And then the last is Jairus and what … And this was what was, again, so haunting for me is Jesus shows up and, the people, it says they laugh. And so, what does he do? He removes disbelief from the room.

Austin Huang:
Takes them out of the room.

Kylen Perry:
So, that way, he can perform what he came to do. And then you get him in his hometown where everyone disbelieves, and the response to that is he performed no mighty works there. I’m like, “Goodness, God, I do not want to be a part of a ministry; I don’t want to be a part of a generation where we don’t see you perform the mighty works we know you’re capable of.”

David Platt:
Yes, yes, yes. I want to see all you want to do.

Kylen Perry:
That’s exactly it, bro. So, anyways, that’s where I’ve been. And then the reason it felt so tailored from God, again, God is … He’s just so sovereign in the way that he works because, at the start of the new year, I really wanted to sit in the Kings because I’ve read through them time and time again but, man, I want to go slow and I want to understand what really happens in the Kings and the Chronicles and then into the rest of the history of Israel. And so, I’m taking my time through the Kings, and I literally just wrapped up the life of Elijah and the story of him with the widow of Zarephath, and then you get to Elisha and his interaction with Naaman the leper.
And if you read the same account, Jesus is in his hometown, but you go to one of the other gospels because it’s actually recounted in all the gospels; you go to Luke 4, what you find is he references both the widow of Zarephath and then he also references Naaman.

David Platt:
Wow.

Kylen Perry:
And it’s like, “Oh, my gosh, God, you wanted this for me.”

David Platt:
Yes, so good.

Kylen Perry:
So, before anybody else, you want it for me, and so it’s caused me to really question what I believe, but, God, would you search me and know me and help me to realize if I don’t, in fact, believe to the degree that I should. This is not about the amount of your faith; it’s about the object of your faith, and so, therefore, Jesus, let me get my eyes on you.

Austin Huang:
Bro, that’s so good. That’s so good.

David Platt:
Man, there’s so much there. I believe, help my unbelief, I feel that, I feel that. I do, I believe and help my own belief, I just want … Even Ephesians 3:19, right before that, that we might be filled with all the fullness of God. That’s what I want; I want more, I want all of them. I want to see all that he wants to do in my life; I want to experience that all through my life, around my life, in my family, in the church. Yes, bro.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, man.

David Platt:
And I love, yeah, that … It was interesting, we were recording another episode with Andy Davis; he talked about that Mark passage. Remember that? He talked about how Jesus, he goes across the lake and just for this one guy-

Austin Huang:
That’s right.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, so intentional.

David Platt:
… and then He leaves. And his love, he loved me and gave himself for me. But the way the Lord woke you up in that way, and I love you saying, “Yeah, this is for The Porch, this is for people in Dallas, this is for me first.”

Kylen Perry:
Yeah.

David Platt:
Yeah.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, I don’t know, I think … And I want to be careful of just painting in broad strokes, but I think sometimes, and I think this is why some of our generation can feel disenchanted with the church, is it feels like the pastor is in an ivory tower; they’re the exception to the rule. Goodness, no, I am not in any way exempt from this stuff; I’m often … Where does conviction come from? It comes from a place of personal application before public declaration. And so, God, I’m praying you would work this into me before you work it into anybody else because I want to preach out of gratitude for the work having been accomplished that I’m asking you now to accomplish for others. So, anyways.

Austin Huang:
Man, I think that’s so crazy is you saying that the disenchantment is in Dallas, but I think it’s just the South. I’m from Houston and it-

Kylen Perry:
Bible belt, right?

Austin Huang:
Yeah, it’s the Bible belt; it’s people who know how to do church; they know how to show up.

David Platt:
It’s wherever Christianity is comfortable.

Austin Huang:
Yup, exactly.

David Platt:
In a sense.

Kylen Perry:
It’s hometown.

David Platt:
Or cultural.

Austin Huang:
Yeah.

David Platt:
Yes, yeah, yes, yes.

Austin Huang:
But even more than that-

David Platt:
Familiar.

Kylen Perry:
Familiar.

Austin Huang:
… when Jesus is on his way to heal Jairus’ daughter, the woman in the crowd touches him, I’ve never even thought about that till you just brought it up. These people are still cheering for him; they’re like, “Who’s this guy? I want to see this guy,” but that’s not faith, that’s not actual faith. They’re amazed by some novelty of it, but they don’t actually believe. They want to see, but their hearts aren’t actually intended towards, man, who is this guy? I want to put my trust and my faith in him.

Kylen Perry:
That’s right.

Austin Huang:
It’s just the hype of the newest thing. I’ve never thought about it that way.

Kylen Perry:
Okay. So, that’s such a great point because it makes me think about something that’s true in Scripture about faith that I think we often misunderstand in the South. I’ve said it like this, so it’s on the top of my mind just because I’ve said this statement before. Faith isn’t just a mentality we adopt; it’s a reality we experience. And what I mean by that is this: Jesus never looks at anybody and is like, “What is your faith?” He doesn’t want you to conceptually brain dump what you believe. What does he ask? Where is your faith? There’s something demonstrable about it, you know?

David Platt:
Yeah.

Kylen Perry:
It’s not just what I know-

Austin Huang:
It’s good.

Kylen Perry:
… it’s what I believe.

Austin Huang:
It’s good.

Kylen Perry:
It’s what I trust to use your word, which is exactly right. It’s like, “Man, it’s not just that this guy is amazing,” because that’s also, to come back to this story about him in his hometown, they were amazed at what he said when he opened the scroll of Isaiah, and he told them, “Today it’s been fulfilled in your presence.” They were amazed at his teaching in Luke 4, and yet he goes on and they try to throw him off a cliff because they’re like, “Hold on, brother, we like the way you talk but we don’t know that we like the way you’re asking us to live,” and I think that that’s so convicting.

Austin Huang:
Yeah.

David Platt:
Man. So, this is two nights ago?

Kylen Perry:
Two nights ago.

David Platt:
Okay. So, I know this is still fresh-

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, it’s super fresh.

David Platt:
… and we totally had not planned on talking about this at all but I just want to lean in here, I just think, okay. And I do want us to think about especially all that you’re doing when it comes to next generation, 18 to 25, 30 year olds, is that about what the point is mainly?

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, it’s 20s, 30s.

David Platt:
20s and 30s, okay, yeah, that’s great.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David Platt:
So, I do want us to … But before we jump there, I think we would miss the point if we just jumped right there. In our lives, so you’re only two days into this but I’ve been processing the same thing so let’s just the three of us process this for a little bit in our own lives. What are the greatest enemies the three of us are facing when it comes to our faith? What is contributing to lack of faith that Jesus might marvel at? I’m just asking that question for us to dive into. Guys, we’re going to have just … What? Where does that word from the Lord, where does that hit home for us?
For me, I think one contributor is just a fear that comes with lack of control. There are some things in my life that I really want to fix that I can’t fix and I think where I’m struggling is all my efforts to fix it, I’m afraid of what will happen. I think that’s probably contributing to a lack of faith.

Austin Huang:
Yeah.

David Platt:
What about you guys?

Kylen Perry:
For myself, yeah. I have this … And I think fear is the right word, man. I think, when you said that, it just felt like the right diagnostic. It was that’s the question, what do you fear. I fear living a life that doesn’t matter, man, which sounds so, I don’t know, ambiguous but I think this is true for so many young adults especially young Christians that have grown up underneath the guidance of generational voices like you did.

Austin Huang:
Yeah, it’s true.

Kylen Perry:
We see people that have had, by the Spirit of God so credit to him and him alone, an immense amount of impact in the world. And I think, having seen that good done in my own life, I want so badly for that to happen through my life to other people and yet I fear my life not measuring out to the amount of matter I want it to make. Does that make sense?

Austin Huang:
Man, yeah, yeah.

Kylen Perry:
So, to that diagnostic of what do you fear, bro, that’s it for me, man.

Austin Huang:
Bro, you’re reading my mind, that’s … I think fear of man can manifest in different ways. So, I was meeting with my mentor and he was like, “Hey, what are you struggling with? What can I pray for you about?” I’m like, “Fear of man.” He’s like, “All right, that’s a little too general.” And so, we started unpacking it and, just like you were saying, I think it’s a fear within me that I’m not impressive enough. I need my life, I need my name to be impressive in order to matter, to count for the kingdom of God and I think that stems from a lot of just growing up feeling like I always need to achieve and achieve and be successful and, yeah, the Lord is just showing me something that I felt like he said to me a few months ago was that he was telling me because I was struggling with the exact same thing, I just didn’t know how to verbalize it at the time.
But I felt like the Lord said I will make my name great in the city of Austin when you stop trying to make your name known.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, that’s good.

Austin Huang:
Finally got it out. But that’s exactly what I’m feeling, God is going to make his name known in the city of Austin but he needs me and it’s not … He doesn’t need me to do it but, if I want to be partnering with God in this, he needs me to understand that it’s him, it’s not me. It’s not about me being impressive or me making my name great, it’s him, it’s his name so, yeah.

David Platt:
You know what else comes to my mind there? This part of what I struggle with, and it relates to what both of you guys have said, it’s not even ultimately in what I do but who I am. We talk all the time feels like on this podcast about identity and how being rooted in Christ is so … Because I’m sitting here thinking about Galatians 2:20, I’ve been crucified to Christ, I no longer live, Christ lives in me and the life I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. So, yeah, I’m dead to myself, living in Christ by faith but this is who I am, I just am trusting in him and then I’m free from thinking, yeah, I’m free from the constant attempt … This is one of the things I’ve been concerned about even with Radical for years, in my own life or anybody else who reads a book or comes across some of the stuff we do, you’ll never be radical enough, when are you going to do enough to make your life really count-

Austin Huang:
That’s true, yeah.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, yeah, that’s right.

David Platt:
… that’s an endless … But that’s why I certainly don’t need to root ourselves there but to ground ourselves in who we are in Christ. But this is who I am, I’m somebody who lives by faith, I trust in Jesus with every facet in my life but, yeah, fear of man can rob us of that.

Kylen Perry:
And, again, we’re representing our generation but, man, I’m sure it’s true across the history of humanity. But I think it’s particularly prevalent for us because we’ve just been raised in this digital age and so we have so much exposure to the exploits of men. And so, what happens is all we see are these lag measures, the success that someone’s having and yet I remember years ago God being like, “Hey, I’m not asking you to be successful, I’m just asking you to be faithful. Stop worrying about the lag measures, start worrying about the lead measure.”

David Platt:
So, how do you guys fight that? Yeah, how do we fight that, yes, but I would love to know, yeah, having been … How old are you, Kylen?

Kylen Perry:
I’m 34 two days ago.

David Platt:
Oh, happy birthday, man.

Kylen Perry:
Thanks, man.

Austin Huang:
Happy birthday.

David Platt:
Two days ago you had a dream on your birthday. Or not dream but this-

Kylen Perry:
I know, I know. It was technically the next morning.

David Platt:
Yeah, yeah, two hours after.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

David Platt:
Yeah, close enough, man, the night. Yeah, that’s really good.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, I got out of my Jesus year. The pressure of 33 was finally off and God was like, “Okay, now we can get back to work.”

David Platt:
But, yeah, when you think about all the … And you see it, obviously, in those around you, those you’re ministering to, yeah, how do we fight against some of that constantly looking at others and measuring yourself against that?

Kylen Perry:
Austin, I would love to hear what you have to say, bro, just because the resonance of you having felt the same things, man, I would love to learn from you on this. I know for myself just reminded of what Jesus says, hey, tomorrow has enough trouble of its own and so don’t worry about it. I think ambition is always thinking about tomorrow and I’m not in any way decrying ambition, I am strongly ambitious to my own demise at times and yet submission to God for today, ambition for God for tomorrow. I’ve just lived in that mantra of, okay, God, I’m just going to do well at what’s right now. What’s revealed to me today is I’m a husband to Brooke, I’m a father to Cash. I’m a minister at Watermark Community Church and I get to lead The Porch, praise God for that so let me do as well at these things as I can.
Okay, two days ago You give me this thing, let me talk to these brothers about it right now and see what we can get shaked out of it. But I don’t know, I don’t know what tomorrow holds but there’s enough trouble for it already so why would I add to it by way of my anxiety, let me instead just focus for right now and trust that that’ll be sufficient.

Austin Huang:
That is so good.

Kylen Perry:
So, yeah, what would you say, Austin?

Austin Huang:
I feel like we reference this way too much on this podcast, C.S. Lewis’s quote, we’re half-hearted creatures, that one, but it’s so true. Our desires are not too strong, they’re in fact too weak, we are half-hearted creatures fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is available to us. An ignorant child going on making mud pies in the slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea, we are far too easily pleased. And so, that’s been resonating with me, just me trying to be impressive is not enough. Even if I just dedicated the next 60, 70 years of my life to try to just do big things, even for the kingdom of God, at the end of the day, if that was my entire aim, if that was all that my faith was trusting in, I would breathe my last breath and my last thought would be it was all pointless because the direction of my sight was not …
That’s what we talked about with TA, glancing not gazing. I was just glancing at Jesus. Oh, I’m doing this for you, God, I’m running this race, I’m looking at him and just keep on running but no, no, no, it’s about gazing and beholding the Lamb of God, beholding him and he transforms us from one degree of glory to the next. And so, that for me has been a good reminder, it’s not about being impressive, making an impact, these things will come, Lord willing, by the grace of God, it’s nothing that we can do to achieve them.

Kylen Perry:
So good, man.

David Platt:
Yeah.

Kylen Perry:
When David says there’s one thing I ask because that will I seek after, one thing I desire, that is … It’s so convinced. It’s not, man, it’s not the main thing that I want, it’s not the top thing on the list, it’s the one thing. And I think what’s amazing about that, what does he want, he wants to dwell on the house of Lord, he wants proximity to God, he wants to enjoy the presence of God, that’s what the house of the Lord is. And so, what’s amazing is one thing to desire, he deploys all of that ambition, he’s like, “It’s to this.” It’s not like, “Hey, sit back, relax, be casual,” in the spirit of Radical it’s like, “No, be zealous,” I love …
They’re referencing the Psalms but the disciples look at Jesus in John 2 and they’re like, “Zeal for the house of the Lord consumes him.” They’re like, “He’s in no way willing to settle for less than the life that God came to give, he’s going to take it, they take it by force.” Jesus is wanting to do that and yet we’re wanting to take for other things when the one thing, the best thing is available instead.

David Platt:
And it’s him, it’s not even zeal for good things. I’m thinking about Luke 10 when Jesus says one thing is necessary and Mary has chosen the better portion. Martha, radical about serving Jesus and He’s like, “Martha, Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things, one thing is necessary.” Mary’s chosen the good portion and what she’s chosen will not be taken away from her.

Kylen Perry:
Yes, that’s right.

David Platt:
Man. So, that our ambition would be with him, see him, gaze on him, pursue him, love him.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah.

David Platt:
Yeah, yeah.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, just all the language you just used, to gaze, to see, to love, to enjoy, I think that that is actually the root of why we are currently experiencing, and I think it’s prevalent within our generation, this spirit of disenchantment because it comes back to it. Though we know, we have not believed, we have not experienced who God is in the person of Christ. He’s not just distant, dormant, dead, he’s close, near, at hand, he’s one to be enjoyed which, again … And I know you all talked to TA about this, I’ll leave that in that episode.

David Platt:
No, bro, lean in. No, lean in.

Kylen Perry:
… man, I think so many in our generation … And it’s the product, it’s not even their fault, it is the product of the world in which we live which is so relativistic. It’s, hey, man, you live for whatever is realest to you, it’s he is the realest thing in reality. There is none realer than the God that created it all and has made himself known to the person of Jesus.

David Platt:
He’s real with a capital R so yeah, yeah.

Kylen Perry:
Enjoy him and yet how do you get near to him? It’s simply, it’s by realizing he’s come near to you. So, anyways, man.

David Platt:
What are some of the biggest, both in you guys’ lives as well as in those around you, what are the biggest barriers to experiencing him as the one thing? Is it distractions? Is it …

Austin Huang:
There’s so much.

David Platt:
Sin, of course, how does it play out, what are the … But also good things.

Austin Huang:
Yeah.

David Platt:
Yeah, anyway, what comes to your mind?

Austin Huang:
Just my phone. That’s the first thing, our phones. We really grew up with phones, that was … I remember the first iPhone came out when I was seven, maybe eight and I always had a phone, I always had something to distract myself with. And I know people can tune off their ears when they hear that, they’re just like, “Ah, whatever, phones,” no, no, no, that’s a huge barrier. I know a guy that he created an app that you have to basically … If you want screen time for social media, you have to read the Bible and, in literally a weekend because I wanted to be on social media so much, I read 40 chapters of Genesis.

David Platt:
Are you serious?

Austin Huang:
I’m not joking.

David Platt:
In a weekend?

Austin Huang:
In a weekend and I was like, “Wait, how long have I had this app?”

David Platt:
How much do you have to read it before you go to-

Austin Huang:
So, every verse is a minute.

David Platt:
Oh, good.

Austin Huang:
So, I’m-

Kylen Perry:
He just wanted 40 minutes, bro.

Austin Huang:
And I’m just going through. I’m like, “Are you”-

Kylen Perry:
Oh, every verse is a-

Austin Huang:
Every verse. So, I wanted a little more time. In a weekend.
So, I know my screen time is a problem, I need to fix that but that’s an example of it.

David Platt:
Yes, man. Well, yes, all the data says that. We’re spending four, five, three, four, five, six, seven hours-

Austin Huang:
For me it’s-

David Platt:
… on a phone, on the screen a day.

Austin Huang:
Yeah, a day, a day.

David Platt:
So, man.

Austin Huang:
So, I know that’s the cliché answer but, for me, that’s what it is.

Kylen Perry:
Dude, the national average for 18 to 34 year olds is somewhere around eight hours a day which is crazy. So, it’s interesting, I think there’s three things that keep us from experiencing the presence of God and I think they’re all rooted in one specific idea which is it’s really … It’s rooted in this thought of hardheartedness. Hosea 10:12, it talks about, hey, the times in him break up your fallowed ground. The Lord, he may reign righteousness upon you. The time is now but you have to break up the fallowed ground. And so, what leads to hardheartedness? So, I think clutter and, yeah, distractions, man. What’s in your life that’s cluttering your ability to see Jesus clearly? And that could be anything. Distractions from your phone, distractions at the office, distractions of the opposite sex, there’s so much stuff so there’s clutter.
It could be, man, hardheartedness comes by way of your cold. What cools off your affections for God? Well, you see it through Scripture what warms your affections is his Word. Think of those disciples on the road to Emmaus. We’re not our hearts burning, burning as he opened the Word to us, it’s, oh, man. And so, this is such a sidebar but, if your reading of the Word is not warming you up, then you’re not reading it right.

David Platt:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kylen Perry:
So, there’s something to that. And then the last thing I would say is you can be cluttered, you could be cold or you could be calloused and that idea comes from just the sufferings of life, man. We live in a hard world and I think so many people and, gosh, I talk to them every single week, young adults particularly that they’re just so calloused because life has dealt them a bad hand, because things haven’t gone the way they wanted nor they thought and so they just don’t know how God can be good. And it’s, man, I think that that … Whenever those three things happen, you’re cluttered, cold, you’re calloused, it’s hard to experience the goodness of God because it brings his goodness into question. But there’s routes out of that, you know what I mean?

Austin Huang:
Yeah, that’s good, bro.

Kylen Perry:
So, anyways.

David Platt:
Man, it’s hard not to think about Mark 4 as you’re talking, just that seed on the ground and the way it’s, yeah, hard and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches and just all kinds of other things in the world that choke it out. I also, when I’m thinking about it, I’ve been reading just in my time with the Lord in Exodus the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart and it’s that point where I think it’s when the locusts are just destroying everything and all his magicians are like, “Let them go, they’re destroying the whole place,” and he still won’t do it. A hard heart, you can’t even see … Even when evil people are trying to tell him to do something right, he still can’t see it but it’s, man, we can get that way.
As I was praying, I was just like, “Lord, please keep me from hardness of heart.” I do think that, to go back to where this whole conversation started, the lack of faith is rooted in the hardness of heart, yeah. You said there’s ways out of that, there’s a ton of things we could talk about there but let’s just talk about the encouragement. How do you get beyond some of these things? Practical ways, obviously, biblical ways, yeah, how do you cultivate faith?

Kylen Perry:
Gosh. I think there’s a main idea that I want to circle back to because I think it connects to what you just said. I think the simple and short of it for me and, Austin, again, I’d love to know what you have to say, bro, but, man, if you feel cold, how do you warm yourself up, you read his Word, come close to him again. So, I think that one’s just, man, read the Word in a way where it feels rich. I tell people the goal of the day is to love God more by the end of it than you did at the beginning and his Word is a key part to that. And so, I think it makes good sense that the book most off quoted by Jesus was the Psalms so it’s funny.
I think sometimes we can feel like it’s not a badge of honor but a badge of dishonor if you’re in the Psalms because it feels easy and emotional, I’m like, “No, man. Go there, there’s something so good to it.” That doesn’t mean that you should omit the rest of the Scripture but you can read multiple parts of the Bible simultaneously.
So, do it for your mind but do it for your heart as well.

David Platt:
Yes, that’s great.

Kylen Perry:
I think that helps with the coldness, I think with the clutter, it’s, man, if you’re distracted, get devoted, man, pull things out. If things are dividing your attention, then, gosh, take your attention back. This is crazy, attention mining is a massive industry. You aware of this? So, I thought this was the most interesting thing. Netflix used to ask you are you still watching but they don’t anymore. We were just watching a show the other night and it was the show finished and it just was five seconds and the next one because Netflix is trying to mine for your attention. The world’s trying to mine for your attention. That’s not a shot at you, Netflix, but we know what you’re doing.

David Platt:
Yeah. Well, they’re all doing it, yes.

Kylen Perry:
And that’s the thing. So, it’s not I need to give God, no, you’ve got to take your attention back before you can give God your attention again so take it back. Don’t let the world dictate what you do and do not think about, you’re in control of that so take out your captive.

David Platt:
That’s a good-

Kylen Perry:
Take out your captive, take captive your thoughts.

David Platt:
Yeah, yes, yeah. Just a super practical thing to just dive in there for a minute. We do as a church family 21 days of prayer and fasting at the beginning of the year and there was two particular apps on my phone, good content, sports related content but the kind of thing that I was just too quick to check in my idle moments and I think were consuming too much time so I was like, “Okay, I’m going to take these off during these 21 days.” And taking that distraction away, it was so freeing in a way that I just not put the things back on, it was good. But it’s mind-numbing, mind stealing, I don’t know, mind distracting for sure with good things, nothing immoral but that’s where we’ve got to be able to discern between the good and the best.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah. We talk so much with our leaders at The Porch about this idea of consecration which doesn’t get a lot of love in our modern moment but, in the Scripture, it’s pretty proliferate, you see it all over the place. What is that really talking about? It’s not just about giving up bad things, it’s giving up good things to get more of God. So, it’s, yeah, some of this stuff is morally neutral, it’s fine but there is reward in giving it up for a time that you might get that which is most rewarding of all, you might get more of Jesus.

Austin Huang:
Yeah. I love what you said because good things aren’t God, they can never be God.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, that’s right.

Austin Huang:
My mind goes to just walking with brothers and sisters who are on fire for the King.

David Platt:
That’s really good though.

Austin Huang:
Because I’m not a very anxious person, just naturally, my state of existing is not super anxious. And I remember just this was a month ago or two months ago and I was just having a really anxious day and I didn’t know why. And then I got around brothers and sisters doing a Bible study and we were just going to war for each other, praying and reading Scripture and I left and, on my drive home, I was just rejoicing and singing songs of worship and I had a moment of realization. I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I don’t feel anxious at all,” and it wasn’t anything that … It was no step-by-step process, it was just getting around the people of God and things broke off. And I’m afraid that our generation thinks that they can lone wolf this faith thing and God would not have had plan A be the local church if he didn’t care, if he thought that you could do it by yourself.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, that’s right.

Austin Huang:
His grace is sufficient for our salvation but, for sanctification, I would argue that being around people to lift you higher, call you out, help consecrate you, literally walk you into the … The holiest way you can walk with the Lord is through belonging to others where you can confess sin and you can lay down your burdens. We’re called to bear each other’s burdens, at the end of the day, we each have to bear our own load but that’s literally in the same Scripture is bear each other’s burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ. So, I think that is something that, yeah, our generation struggles with so much loneliness.

Kylen Perry:
Man, that’s so good. And the reason why I’m like … I think one of … And this goes back to, man, what is one of the primary contributors to disbelief and I think sometimes one of those things can be … It can actually be opposition from other believers. People will look at you and be like, “Man, you’re too much or that doesn’t feel wise. Why don’t you slow down, you’re going too far,” you’re not going far enough. And I think what’s cool is when you’re around other zealous believers is you’re spurred forward to love and good works, you find yourself encouraged to keep going. I just think so often, and this is what it goes back to that though from Mark 6, man, it is the opposition of people that think they know Jesus that will often keep those who believe in Jesus from chasing after him to the extent that he is. Your zeal will confront their apathy.

Austin Huang:
That’s so good.

Kylen Perry:
You know what I mean?

David Platt:
Yeah.

Kylen Perry:
So, it’s, man, get yourself around some zealous people.

David Platt:
Because if you’re not careful, others’ apathy will-

Kylen Perry:
Oh, my gosh.

David Platt:
… just dull your zeal.

Kylen Perry:
Yes.

David Platt:
I just think, as I’m listening to both of you talk, I’m just like, “Yeah.” If we surround ourselves with cultural Christianity, then we’ll become like what we’re beholding around us in ways that are … And we’ll just cultivate it and it’ll snowball. So, we’ve got to be really careful with the kind of Christianity we’re surrounding ourselves with.

Austin Huang:
That’s really good, yeah.

David Platt:
Yeah, because to the Mark 6 text that, obviously, the Lord has orchestrated this conversation revolve around in a way-

Austin Huang:
Yeah.

Kylen Perry:
That’s great.

David Platt:
… nobody planned certainly three days ago. But yeah, if you’re in that town, you’re like, “Yeah, who’s this guy? I don’t believe.” “Oh, I don’t believe either.” And if we’re not careful, that can actually be our … If we’re surrounding ourselves with a church that’s pretty comfortable, casual, cultural Christianity then, okay, that’s not going to be it. We need the body of Christ.

Austin Huang:
Yeah.

Kylen Perry:
That’s right.

Austin Huang:
That’s where joy is found. It makes it easier to get into the presence of God when you have believers around you with faith that it is easy to get into the presence of God. And when you were sharing that, I was just thinking, yeah, God burdened my heart for the loss in Austin, Texas two, three years ago now at this point and so I had this dream to start evangelizing. I just want to go down 6th Street and just preach the gospel but everyone I told was like, “Oh, that’s great. Yeah, I don’t really want to do that but you do it.” And so, what does that do to me? If no one around me is doing that, I feel like I don’t belong in this city, I feel like I’m the only one who cares. We’ve talked about this in episodes in the past, that stirred in me a distrust and a sour taste in my mouth for the local church so it made me stop trusting.
If they’re not going to care about what I’m doing, I’m going to just go do it myself and the Lord has continued to heal me in that and show me, hey, here are some people, here is a church that believes in what you’re trying to do not because you have this novel idea but because you are aligning yourself with My mission. I’m in seminary right now and I’m learning about the mission of God and it’s just so awesome to now read Scripture through a missional hermeneutic which I didn’t know was … I didn’t know what hermeneutic meant before I started the course but I’m not-

David Platt:
I’m not going to put the pressure on you to define it either, bro.

Austin Huang:
There we go.

Kylen Perry:
Yes.

Austin Huang:
I think of it as a lens through which we read Scripture.
There you go. But I’m reading Scripture now through that lens and I’m just it is so evident that God is calling us to be on mission with him because it’s his mission, it’s been his mission. From Genesis to Revelation, Old Testament to New Testament, the mission of God has been there and he’s inviting us into that.

David Platt:
So good, dude.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah. It’s like a modern misconception, it’s a mistake in missiology. We get this idea of, hey, you’re in the world but you’re not out of the world, that’s not what Jesus said. He said in John 17, He’s like, “You’re not of the world, you’re sent into the world.”

Austin Huang:
So good.

Kylen Perry:
And it’s, man, so many Christians, they don’t want to get the world on them and it’s like, “Brother, sister, you’ve been sent into it and that requires a level of zeal. You’ve got to move with purpose.”

David Platt:
Yes.

Kylen Perry:
I just think about, goodness, what is spoken, and I think it is Revelation three to the Church of Laodicea where he’s like, “You’re neither-

Austin Huang:
Hot or cold.

Kylen Perry:
… hot nor cold, you’re lukewarm.” Spit you from my mouth because lukewarm water has no use. Hot water, cold water at least they’re useful but tepid water is useless. But what’s his response? He tells them, he’s like, “Repent and be zealous again.”

David Platt:
Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes.

Kylen Perry:
And that’s the conclusion for the church is enough.

David Platt:
And I’m standing at the door and knocking, I want … What we’ve talked about, the one thing, this is Jesus saying I want to be with you and, yeah, I want to invite you to be with me, us to feast together. Go back to your joy, half-hearted creatures, this is life but that’s good. As you’re saying that, I’m just thinking about I think so many times and, yes, we have different personalities, it’s going to look, manifest itself differently in different personalities but zeal is not just a personality trait. Yeah, zeal for the house of the Lord, zeal for the presence of the Lord, zeal for the things of the Lord, zeal for the Lord period, that should be a marker.

Kylen Perry:
And it’s interesting you say it because personality type is one of the things people use to excuse themselves.

David Platt:
Oh, really?

Kylen Perry:
Man, I’m just-

Austin Huang:
It’s just not my personality.

Kylen Perry:
We’re built differently and it’s like, “No, no, no.” If you believe in Christ, the Spirit has been poured into you, what does the Spirit exist to do so much but glorify he that sent him. So, it’s, oh, my gosh, the Spirit is here to glorify Christ so it’s not a matter of personality difference or gift mixes, it’s, goodness, no, we have been called to the same mission because we have been saved by the same God.

David Platt:
And it’s actually beautiful when the body of Christ with all of its different personalities and gifts and skills all has that zeal and so it’s manifesting itself in all these different ways but it’s not zeal for a few, it’s a shared zeal in the whole body, that’s a beautiful … And with all of its creative expressions and the way the Holy Spirit leads us to play that out in different ways through different jobs, through different routes.

Kylen Perry:
That’s right.

David Platt:
Yeah.

Kylen Perry:
So, we’ve been working through the Book of Genesis at The Porch and you open up one and two and so you find yourself talking about the Imago Dei and the cultural mandate, what God put us here for? And the reality is it’s, yes, plurality, you got to multiply, man, but you also should diversify because it’s not possible. Actually, it’s so arrogant for any one type of person to think that they can image the fullness of God in his entirety. It’s, no, we need to be different from each other. There needs to be, not just a plurality, but a diversity in the expression of the body of Christ and so that’s why I love it. I look across our room on Tuesdays, I look at my team at work and, if you’re listening in, you can look at those around you, they’re different than you and you can realize, man, our maturity depends on this, on the fact that we’re diverse from each other, that we’re not the same. It didn’t call us to uniformity, to look the same, it called us to unity.

Austin Huang:
That’s so good. And if I can, I just want to also caution someone listening to this because I can just sense that someone might be listening to this and be like, “Yeah, let’s all get super zealous, let’s all jump around and worship and do it and the people that aren’t doing that are not doing it right.” And I just want to caution that person listening because I was that person and I look around the room and nobody’s hands are up and I’m like, “Nobody here wants God.” How am I supposed to know that? Just because their hands aren’t up? Just because they aren’t jumping around? No, no, no-

David Platt:
And as if the hands up means that’s authentic.

Austin Huang:
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah, that’s right.

Austin Huang:
And so, let’s invite people into it genuinely. And I do believe physical representation can manifest, it shows the faith in a way but let’s not be the ones who are super zealous and attend a church service and look around the room and not think people are being zealous and judge them. No, no, no, you go for the Lord and your faith will become contagious to the people around you.

Kylen Perry:
That’s right. Yeah, it’s infectious, isn’t it? Yeah, I think that’s so good. It’s not like he who lifts his hands the highest or beats his fists the hardest or … Correct me if you all disagree with this, I think zeal often looks like burden, people that are burdened because they’ve beheld the beauty of God and it’s changed something about them. And that’s the thing, it doesn’t have to look a specific way but it should be burdened to a point where there’s an intensity to you but intensity looks different upon everybody. I think, and this is just an encouragement, man, it’s just such a grace from the Spirit to keep connecting the dots back to what we first started.

David Platt:
Yeah, totally.

Kylen Perry:
Jesus, five times, someone watching this is going to correct me, maybe it’s more or less, but five times-

David Platt:
Around five times.

Kylen Perry:
… he says, “Oh, you have little faith.” But every time it’s to his disciples, it’s to his followers, it’s to the people that they have seen him and known him, that maybe the object of their faith just got misplaced for a moment. And he’s not disappointed, frustrated, mad, he’s correcting for our good. He’s reminding us, hey, believe in me properly, in order to do so, you need to see me correctly. I’m not just master, teacher, I’m Lord, Savior.

David Platt:
Yeah, yes, that’s … Man, I’ll tell you where else my mind’s going as you’re saying that. Back to Mark 4 which you’ve mentioned the coming of the storm because I’m just thinking about how the disciples were afraid in the storm and Jesus is asleep. And so, they’re afraid because of their lack of faith and then he stands up and just yawns and goes, “Peace, be still,” and, all of a sudden, it stops and then it says they were really afraid. So, they went from fear for lack of faith to fear because of faith, they realized who this is. The wind and the waves obey this, only God can do that so, man, for a true fear.
The other text that keeps coming to my mind is Isaiah 66:1–2, He marvelled at their faith. This is the one I esteem, he who is humble and contrived in spirit and trembles at my Word. There’s a humility, contrition of Spirit and a trembling at his Word that marks the one who the Lord esteems.

Kylen Perry:
Yeah.

Austin Huang:
And delights in.

David Platt:
The one he looks upon.

Kylen Perry:
Yes, yes. It’s like,” Oh, let me, God, be someone you look upon.”

Austin Huang:
That’s really good, man.

David Platt:
God, make us people who you look upon this way and you marvel only by your grace. Man, I was in the conversation in our church group, our small groups in our church last night and we were talking about this, we got to ask for faith like this, it’s a gift, we need a … Oh, for grace to trust you more like the hymn says, God, please give us, help my unbelief. So, bro, can you pray for us, for everybody listening? Well, however the Spirit leads you but, yeah, all the way back to Mark 6.

Kylen Perry:
I’d love to.

David Platt:
I think the Lord has clearly led us there in a way only he could have and, man, and, Lord, do whatever you want at 2:39 tonight in every one of our lives to … Yeah, yeah. yeah, anyway. Yeah, would you pray, bro?

Kylen Perry:
I would love to, yeah. God, it is so good to be near to you. I know, God, oftentimes, the ways of the world and the things that we deal with, it could convince us that we’re not as near as we think and yet, God, we know we’re near. We’re particularly near God when we pray to you. What other nation is so great as to have the Lord near to them as we do when we pray. And so, God, we know you’re near to us now and we thank you that that’s the case. God, we’re grateful, just the time we’ve had here and the fruit of the conversation, God, it’s not because of any intelligence or insight we had to bring to the table, God, genuinely, it was birthed out of just what you were doing in one of our lives but then, at the same time simultaneously, in the three of us. And, God, what we realize in the midst of that is you care deeply about us and you, God, are wanting us to see you and see you more.

David Platt:
Yes, God, yes, yes.

Kylen Perry:
And so, God, we want to ask for that.

David Platt:
Yes, God.

Kylen Perry:
We want to see you more clearly, please.

David Platt:
Fully.

Kylen Perry:
Oh, God, please. Jesus, we know that we have received everything in Christ and yet we know that we can be, being filled in the Spirit, there is more to also enjoy, more of you to have.

David Platt:
Yes, yes, God.

Kylen Perry:
And, God, it’s not out of a spirit of dissatisfaction that we ask for more, no, God, we have tasted and seen that you’re good and so we want to taste-

David Platt:
Yes, yes, Lord.

Kylen Perry:
… and see more of your goodness and so, God, we pray, please, won’t you help us to see you as you should be seen and respond to you, God, rightly. I pray for the three of us here-

David Platt:
Yes, yes.

Kylen Perry:
… and, God, anyone that just, man, it feels like we’re reading their mail as we have this conversation. I pray, God, for those listening in or watching along, God, I just ask would you make us a people whom you marvel at the belief of.

David Platt:
Yes, God.

Kylen Perry:
That need you not to come to our house to heal our servant but just say if you would only give the word-

David Platt:
Yeah, yeah. Yes, God. Yes.

Kylen Perry:
I pray, God, that we would not be too familiar with you that we lose faith in you. I pray that, God, for those of us whom have grown up with you, we, God, would not look like Nazareth but, God, we would look like your people, people whom you’ve called to yourself that are following you today.

David Platt:
Yes. Yes, God.

Kylen Perry:
So, Jesus, we just ask, have your way in us, please. Thanks for just how good you are, how magnificent you are and we pray would you be only all the better and all the more magnificent to us, please, we pray, in Christ’s name, amen.

David Platt:
Amen, amen.