Parenting Kids Who Belong to Jesus

David Platt:
Michael and Melissa, thank you guys for sitting down for a conversation about … Well, let me just start here. I was talking to your daughter and son-in-law last night, who I’ve met before, and I wish people could just see the joy on this newlywed couple’s faces, but they are preparing to go to the other side of the world, to make the gospel known, in a remote part of Southeast Asia. So let’s rewind and think. Is this part of your dream for your kids?

Michael Kruger:
It is and it isn’t. One of the things I think we always wanted with parents, of course, is to see our kids come to know Christ and not just be Christians, but to really be passionate about the gospel, and passionate about reaching people for Christ. And we always wanted that in our kids.
Did I have this plan, did we have this vision, for sending our child to the other end of the Earth? Well, I don’t know that we really ever thought that far ahead, but one of the things that we saw about our daughter is that at a very young age, she was already getting a call to the mission field, even in kindergarten.
And I think we watched it happen in a way that we were like, “Can you really be called to the mission field in kindergarten? But her passion for other people groups started when she was really young.”
They had a thing at her school; she went to a Christian school, and had a thing about other tribes, other people, lost groups, and she came home all excited, and said, “I want to be a missionary.”
And we were like, “Well, okay. Kids say lots of things. I want to be a doctor, I want to be a lawyer,” and whatever.
We’re certainly thinking, “That’s wonderful,” and you know what? The Lord has done it, and we are just so thankful, and so proud of her, and scared at the same time, honestly. She’s going to a faraway place, but it’s been a joy to watch.

Melissa Kruger:
Yeah, you may not know. I remember when I first got pregnant with her, I do remember praying, “Lord, if she can just walk with you, you can take her anywhere you want to go.” We were living in Scotland at the time she was born, so she actually got her passport picture when she was one week old. So this child has been, this, actually-

Michael Kruger:
She’s been an international child from the beginning, yeah.

Melissa Kruger:
Strangely, an international child. But I do definitely remember praying that. Yeah, I do laugh now, because the place she’s planning to go, or they’re planning to go, you can fly either way. It is truly the farthest way from-

David Platt:
The other side of the world.

Melissa Kruger:
I was like, “Oh, this one’s really far.” But I do just remember thinking, “I know we would have eternity together.” So even if he sends her somewhere, what really matters is eternity. And so, I do remember praying that, even when she was little, but she might now be upset that I was praying that.

Michael Kruger:
“Yeah, why’d you pray that? What were you thinking? Would you pray for a closer location?”

Melissa Kruger:
I know.

David Platt:
It’s so good. What a prayer for every prospective parent to pray. Or I mean, parent with any child of any age, at this point. What was it again? “Lord, I just want them to follow you, and you can take them anywhere.”

Melissa Kruger:
Yeah, yeah, take them anywhere. Because what is life, but a breath? And so, this is momentary; we will be in glory together. I mean, that’s what you’re hoping for.
And so, I mean, honestly, it would be way more unsafe for my child to live next door, and be running after the world. That’s unsafe.
So, to be following God is always the safest thing to be doing, wherever it might be. That doesn’t mean physically safe, always. It doesn’t mean all the things we may long for, but that’s the safest place to be, not running after other things.

David Platt:
So good. This feels so obvious, even as I’m processing this with you all, but it’s so hard for a parent to say, “I want your will for my child, more than I want my will for my child.” Yeah, to really trust God with your children, that’s the core of that kind of prayer.

Michael Kruger:
Well, I think a lot of parents have all kinds of aspirations for their kids. I mean, we did a session on parenting just yesterday here at the conference. And one of the things that we talked about there is how some parents are like, “Academics is the thing, summer sports are the thing.”
And I’m always amazed at how much parents will pour into trying to guide their kids to various things. But I don’t know that as many Christian parents are thinking, “But am I guiding them to the ultimate thing, or am I guiding them to possibly serving Christ in more formative ways?”
I mean, it doesn’t mean everyone’s called to be in ministry. People do lots of things that are glorifying to God, but I don’t know if that’s a category for a lot of parents. And I don’t even know if we had it all mapped out, but I think, as Melissa said, “We just said, ‘Look, Lord, do something special with this child, wherever it might be.” And again, we didn’t anticipate the other end of the globe, but hey, there’s a great need over there, and we’re excited for it.

David Platt:
Well, and you have other children who, at this point, God has not called in the same way that he has called this one particular daughter. You have a son who spent some time overseas, and came back, and was like, “Yup, that’s not what God’s called me to do.”

Michael Kruger:
Yeah, no, he did. Did a short-term mission trip, and he loved it, and had a great time at it, but I think he was like, “Yeah, I don’t think that’s the thing for me, long term.”
He didn’t think that was the thing that he’s going to do vocationally, but he loves the Lord and serves Christ where he is. And in his future career, I know he will be as glorifying to Christ as he can be.
And our youngest child, same thing. She loves Jesus, and has a passion for the arts, and for music and writing, and I know that she’ll serve Christ there.

David Platt:
So good. So, success is not when they go to the other side of the world. Success is when they’re following Jesus and going wherever he leads.

Melissa Kruger:
Exactly. And our youngest sometimes struggles with that, I think. She’s got two parents, who’ve been in ministry her whole childhood.
And then, she has this big sister who’s doing that, and she’ll sometimes say, “Is it okay?” And we’re like, “Oh, we need people in every area working in every type of job, glorifying God in that.”
So we’ve always felt, “Hey, it’s totally fine for your mission field to be the bank that you work at, or the engineering firm you work for.” That’s great, but-

Michael Kruger:
Yeah, we actually have a little bit of a standing family joke, where we almost try to talk our kids out of ministry, right?

David Platt:
All right, yeah.

Michael Kruger:
Not out of Christ.

David Platt:
Yes, right, yes, yes.

Michael Kruger:
To be clear, we’re 100% wanting them to serve and love Jesus. But ministry’s hard. Anybody who’s in ministry knows it’s hard. And our kids actually have seen, because they live with two parents in ministry, how hard it can be. And so, we have this sort of half joke, half not joke, we’re like, “Maybe you don’t want to do this.”
And don’t feel bad that you’re not, because there are other great ways to serve Christ. But then, on the flip side, we certainly welcome God’s call to the ministry, and it looks like our oldest is headed that way, and we’ll see what happens.

David Platt:
So, all right, let’s back up, because yes, your kindergarten daughter went to a Christian school, where she was hearing about unreached people around the world.
But there were some other things, I think, that were happening between zero to five, after you’re praying that prayer, as you’re pregnant, and then, after that, that are cultivating, well, the answer to this prayer, “I’ll follow you, Jesus, wherever you want me to go.”
What are just some practical things you guys have done as parents? Obviously, we believe in the glory of God’s grace. Only he can save, but there are means that he’s got.
And there are means that God’s called us to do, to pour the gospel into our children, with the hope that they’ll follow Jesus. So that played out just practically in your guys’ family?

Michael Kruger:
Yeah, I think Melissa and I have always had, I would say it this way, I think we both always had a global perspective on our ministry, just by God’s providence. We both did short-term mission trips ourselves, when we were in college, Melissa to Ukraine, me to Kenya, in Africa.
And then, we did an international PhD in Edinburgh, which obviously isn’t the unreached tribe somewhere, but there’s a great need for the gospel in Scotland. But it gives you this international flavor. The world’s a big place, there’s lots going on.
Then, when we started having young kids, one of the things we did do with them, and there are lots of things that we wanted to do with them, but one of the main things we do with them is, when we did our prayer time as a family, we actually prayed for named missionaries. So we didn’t just pray for the world generally, but we had a person and a country that we prayed for.
And I think that was part of it, right? You realize, “Oh, the world is bigger than my neighborhood, and bigger than the city I live in, but there’s so much going on around the globe.” And that perspective, I think, was part of it.

Melissa Kruger:
Yeah. And then, when those missionaries would come home, because a lot of them were something from our church, they would be like, “Oh.”

Michael Kruger:
Yeah, they’re missionaries the kids actually knew.

Melissa Kruger:
“That’s the Fosters, we pray for them. And oh, that’s Tim and Allison, and they’re in Thailand.” And I mean, they actually remembered, because they prayed for years for these missionaries we were supporting. And I think seeing that helped them just normalize it. It’s not something other people do.
And we always said, “Actually, we’re part of it, by prayer. So we are part of the sending.” If we’re not going, we should be praying in our home.

Michael Kruger:
And one other international thing that the Lord allowed us to do is, I did a sabbatical research about a call in Cambridge, England, well after my PhD. And we took the whole family, and lived in Cambridge for six months.
But then, when we were in Cambridge for six months, we traveled to see different missionary friends, some in Prague, some in Spain, from the UK, and all our kids were with us. And they got that impression of seeing actual missionaries on the ground in their home country, which was part of it.
So I’ve always loved that about the opportunities we’ve had, because I just think it’s easy for everybody to always just be thinking about the person right outside your door, which is the place to start.
You always start with where God has put you, but to remember there’s a big world that God loves and wants to reach.

Melissa Kruger:
Remember also, we did dispatches from the Front nights?

Michael Kruger:
Oh yeah, that’s right. We did that.

Melissa Kruger:
So if you can’t go, because obviously, most people can’t up and move for six months and visit missionaries, and all that, but this was a way you bring the world to your living room. Look, I mean, everyone’s looking for family movie night. Ours was Dispatches from the Front.

Michael Kruger:
This is a video series, you probably know about it. Which is basically, on-site missionary testimonies about what they’re doing in various countries. And We just sort of had a movie night with our kids like that. Now, some people hear that, laugh, and go, “Our kids would never go for that.”

Melissa Kruger:
They had such a fun childhood.

Michael Kruger:
Yeah, exactly. It’s like, “Oh, it would have been fun growing up in your house.” But actually, the kids liked it.

Melissa Kruger:
They loved it.

Michael Kruger:
And there’s a little bit of an adventure side to it. You’re figuring out foreign countries, and you’re learning the ropes, and riding in some jeep through the jungle. So there were some fun parts to that.

David Platt:
Well, so this will be just a total shameless radical plug here, but our content team, and what they put together, Hard to Reach series, Neighborhoods and Nations, it’s similar. My kids are mesmerized by seeing what’s happening around the world.
And those videos just open eyes to what’s happening in Iran for the spread of the gospel, what’s happening in Indonesia, what’s happening in Japan, and what are the challenges? But we have plenty of resources available to us to help kids see what God’s doing in the world that we can do in our living room.
And I love what you said about even praying, so letting that lead to pray, specifically, and realizing that, in praying for these missionaries, they were participating with them in the work that’s happening around the world now. I love that perspective, that it’s not just training you or preparing you for what you might do in the future. It’s like life now.
We as a family right now are a part of spreading the gospel around the world, through the way we are praying, through the way we might give.
So, through our relationships with this. To realize that, well, in our lives, but my kindergartner can actually be a part of what God’s doing in my missions right now.

Melissa Kruger:
Yeah. When our oldest, actually, when we were in Cambridge, I don’t know if you remember this, she formed a missionary club with the other kids, and we were at this Tyndale house. It was a lovely little community, and these other kids-

Michael Kruger:
She was 10 years old at the time.

Melissa Kruger:
Yeah, and they formed a missionary club.

Michael Kruger:
Nine years old, actually.

Melissa Kruger:
And they would write letters to different missionaries we knew, just to encourage them. And I was like, “The church should be doing this.” You know, how great, to get little letters from kids?
And then, those kids or drawing, maybe see Sunday school classes, we should do more of that in the church. That is age-appropriate for kids, to watch maybe a five-minute video, something that y’all are putting on. And then, write letters to them, and support them. I just think that would be such a good use of Sunday school time, for kids or children’s church time.

David Platt:
That’s so good. And for them to see, “Yes, I’m a part of this now.” “And then, maybe my part will change in the days ahead, when I get older, but I can actually play a part right now.” That’s pretty awesome.
So having talked with your daughter before, who is going overseas, how that was playing out, do you remember the cul-de-sac story?

Michael Kruger:
Oh, yeah.

David Platt:
Tell that story.

Michael Kruger:
That was amazing.

David Platt:
Because it’s not just about, “I want to spread the gospel around in the world.”

Michael Kruger:
So, this is a great story. As we said earlier, when she was five, she started thinking she wanted to be a missionary, but then, even as she got a little bit older, six or seven, she started witnessing to our neighbors, and sharing the gospel with our next-door neighbor’s son, who was a kid, giving him a Bible.
And we went to the neighbor, and said, “Oh, I hope that’s okay.” And the neighbor said, “Well, there’s worse things your daughter could be giving my son.” But then, one day, I was driving home from work.
I came up to our house, which was in a cul-de-sac, and written on the street in chalk, kids’ chalk and pink colors, was the word “repent,” and huge letters, R-E-P-E-N-T, right there. And I just said, “Oh, it looks like my daughter’s been busy in the street, drawing out evangelistic messages.”
So I pulled in the driveway, and I said, “Emma, did you draw the thing?” She goes, “Yeah, Dad, what do you think?” So I encouraged her. I was like, “It’s wonderful you’re sharing the gospel.”
And I said to myself, “I’m not sure that’s the exact method I would have chosen,” but it revealed her wonderful heart.

David Platt:
I just love that it was a cul-de-sac. Literally, you would have to turn around.

Michael Kruger:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. “Turn around the other way,” yeah, yeah.

David Platt:
“You came out, keep going in this direction.”

Michael Kruger:
The symbolism was rich. And maybe she even had that in her head.

David Platt:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. That’s amazing. But I do, I highlight that, just because, “Yeah, we want our kids to follow Jesus, not just in the future, right now, and where he has placed us now, which involves sharing the gospel.”

Michael Kruger:
And I think, when you think about someone who ends up on the mission field, it doesn’t start when they’re 25 and decide, “I’m going to go to the mission field.” Like you said, that process is a long process, which is why the whole idea of being globally aware and thinking about missions should be permeating our lives, long before someone gets the call, right?
So yeah, she’s going to end up on the mission field, but it really started with many, many steps before that. And I think that that keeps it from being a sharp demarcation between, “Those missionaries out there, they’re over there doing missions work, and then there’s us over here, who aren’t.” Finding a way to blend those two together, I think, is so key.

David Platt:
That’s good. I want to back up even a little bit more, in the sense, and back up in this way, that I think about a young couple, who just this last Sunday, they were baptized in our church family, just had a little baby, she’s a few months old.
But they are totally green. They’ve never been in church, they didn’t grow up in a Christian homes. Everything is green, and gloriously new and exciting for them.
For them, thinking about parenting, what are some encouraging things you would say, if it’s like, “Hey, I’m new to the gospel. I’m new. I have no idea what parenting looks like, in a way that would be different from maybe how I was raised, without the gospel?”
Yeah, just, even some basic things. What would you say if you got just a few minutes with that couple? What are some of the things that you’re just encouraging them with?

Michael Kruger:
Yeah, well, one of the things that we talk about in our parenting discussions is, “There’s a lot to be afraid of out there, when you’re a parent, and it’s easy to be anxious about so many things.” And every generation of parents has that problem.
But then, in our current moment, we have social media and mobile phones, and “When do I let my kid have one,” and these sorts of things, and a lot of pressures and cultural change going on around us.
I mean, step one, for any parent, is just recognizing the key to parenting is making sure that God is at the center of everything you’re doing as a family. Because he’s the hope your kid has, right?
So, rather than thinking so much about, “How do I change my child, control my child, mold my child”, trusting that God is at work through families, using families, and have a certain amount of optimism, that God is busy doing that, and not focus on the fear side of it, but focus on the hope, the hope in God.

Melissa Kruger:
Yeah, I was going to say the exact thing. I was going to say, “It’s going to be really tempting for you to fear, and overcompensate, trying to get everything right.” And just to remember, the basics really matter.
Pick a verse, and memorize it with your kids. Pray with them regularly. Just every night, when you’re sitting at the kitchen table, just say a prayer. I mean, that’s teaching them how to talk to God. And then, go to church. I mean, this-

Michael Kruger:
It’s the ABC’s of Christian life.

Melissa Kruger:
Yeah, I mean, those are going to, one, they’re going to transform your heart. Because the first call is, “Love the Lord your God, with all your heart, soul, and strength.” And then, impress these on your children, is second.
So I would say, “You grow in the knowledge of the Lord, and the other is going to flow down,” but you be transformed, and that transformation’s going to make an impression on your child.
And so, don’t feel like you have to get it all right, just follow Jesus. And the Word, prayer, and church, those are your basics.

Michael Kruger:
I mean, one of the things that I think is obvious is that our kids end up, to some extent, being like us. And even though we don’t think they’re listening to us, we don’t think they’re going to model themselves after us, the truth of the matter is, the biggest influence on our kids’ lives are parents.
So, rather than thinking, “Let me really try to change my child,” start with yourself and make sure you’re following Christ. And if they’re imitating you, even if they’re not intending to, hopefully, they’re imitating you, as you imitate Christ. So, for parents, parenting doesn’t start with parenting. Parenting starts with following Jesus first. And then, it goes from there. It flows down.

David Platt:
It would not make sense to pray what you prayed for your child. I just want that, “Lord, would they follow you, and wherever you lead them, if you’re not, I just want to follow you, in wherever you lead me,” showing what that looks like. And I love that, even just thinking about that encouragement to this young couple, and to any parents, but just, you follow Jesus, and then involve them in the process. Pray with them, read the Bible with them, go to church with them. Do even ministry with them.

Michael Kruger:
One of the analogies I often give, which highlights that, is when you’re on an airplane, and the flight attendant says, “If an oxygen mask drops in the ceiling, put yours on first, before you help someone else.”
Every time I hear that, I always think, “That sounds kind of selfish, right? Why would I put my own on first, and then, before I help someone else?” Then you realize, “If I’m not breathing in oxygen, I’m not good at anybody, I’m not useful for anyone.”
And that’s what it means to be a parent. You have to be breathing in God’s Word, breathing in the Holy Spirit yourself, if you’re going to help your child. So in one sense, you do put the mask on first.
You follow Christ first, then you help your child follow Christ. And I think that’s a good analogy of what we’re talking about.

Melissa Kruger:
And in our digital age, we just where you can listen to the Bible, and all these are great ways to get the Bible, I’m not against it. If you can have your actual physical Bible, so your kid knows what you’re doing. Because, on your phone, you could be, if you’re reading the Bible on your phone they could think you’re Instagramming it, Facebooking, whatever. But when they actually see you up in the morning, reading your Bible, and I always kept a prayer journal, and doing those things, they’re paying attention. They’re watching that.
And I remember, with each of our kids, I never actually said, “Hey, you need to spend time reading the Bible.” We gave them Bibles.
But I can remember, actually, with our son opening the door, he would sneak up to his room, and he would shut the door. He didn’t want us to him reading his Bible. He was, he was sneaky about his Christianity.

Michael Kruger:
So when you have a teenage boy who sneaks in his room, and shuts the door, you’re like, “Oh, no, what’s going on in there?” So when we were trying to figure out what he was doing there, he’s in there reading his Bible. It was like, “This is great.

Melissa Kruger:
And he would look up at me annoyed, “Why are you in here?”

Michael Kruger:
Yeah. “Why are you in here?”

Melissa Kruger:
“Sorry. Didn’t mean to interrupt.” But they, I think, just saw, when they just see, that’s a normal part of being a Christian, and I think that the things we’re doing, just to be a Christian, are impressing upon our kids things, and what we’re spending our lives on, that they’re going to see it, which is a huge responsibility, but it’s also, it’s not complicated.
I always say, it’s like losing weight. It’s really simple, but it’s really hard to do. The Christian life is made to be simple. There’s not a secret formula. Again, Word, prayer, and the church. It’s really simple, but the world’s going to come at you with everything you should be doing.
Your own flesh is going to fight you, the Devil’s going to tempt you. Everything’s assaulting, so you don’t just do the basics.
And so, the more we can say, “I’m going to fight the battle on my knees, in the Word, and at church,” that’s going to be this force field, I feel like, for us and our families.

David Platt:
Sure. That’s so good. And obviously, knowing, okay, do these things, there’s no guarantee, like, “A+B+C will automatically lead to this right here.” But this is one of the things I love.
When we did that, had that panel discussion at the Women’s Conference for TGC, and we were talking about kids who may, I mean, I know there’s some people listening to this who’ll be like, “Yeah, yeah, I would love for my child to go to the other side of the world, spreading the gospel. I’d love for them just to be willing to open their Bible, at this point.” But I remember you saying, “Yes, my daughter, who was sitting next to you, is walking with the Lord. But I don’t presume upon that for tomorrow.” And so it’s not like, I’m just sitting back and coasting right now. No parent ever coasts in that sense, right?

Melissa Kruger:
No, no. When you get to Heaven, and you all greet each other, that moment is the one you, I think, finally feel safe. We know the Lord will keep them. We believe in the efficacy of his salvation power. But we’ve just, all of us have watched people turn from the Lord later in life, and you’re like, “Why? Why now?”
And so, I think, again, what do you do, as a young parent? You read the Bible, and you pray. What do you do as a parent of adult kids? You read the Bible, and you pray, and you surround yourself with the community of the church, who will also pray for your child when they’re wandering, when they’re doubting, when they’re in complete and utter rebellion. You need the church, not just they need the church.
I think, if we could just remember, again, kids are not saved by perfect parenting. By grace, you have been saved through faith, and this is not of yourself is a gift of God. So we’ve got to lower the temperature for parents and say, “What you do matters, but it cannot matter salvifically.”
Yeah. I mean, God’s going to save a people for himself. But what we do can create an environment where that faith can flourish. So it’s very important, but it’s not ultimate.

David Platt:
Yeah. I hope people hearing those words right now would … Part of me, in a fresh way, just feels like some weight off my shoulders, like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, it matters, but not ultimately.” That’s a really good word, thankfully, not ultimately, on my shoulders.
Well, now, okay, fast-forward. So back to, all right, your daughter, new son-in-law are about to go. So do you guys, I mean, you’ve said, I pray this, is there any fear, or … Yeah, I don’t even know what the word would be best described. What are the emotions you all feel?

Michael Kruger:
Well, I feel many things. I mean, certainly, foreign countries can be scary places. And there’s certain fears you have about safety, and things like this, I think, that are normal.
But my biggest fear, and I don’t know that we’ve even laid out our fears of each other, actually. My biggest fear is more, I’m just really going to miss her.
I feel, she just graduated and got married, and I’m like, “Oh, maybe we could, now we’re adults. We can spend more time together.” Off you go. So there’s a sense, in which I think there’s a relational price that is being paid there, which is, “Hey, we’re willing to pay that, because we want her to go where the Lord wants her to go.”
But I think if there’s any sort of weight or fear, I’m like, “I’m just going to miss her, and our new son-in-law, too,” and wish we could spend more time with them.
And it’s not easy to fly to the other side of the world, and see them. So I think that’s what’s on my shoulders.

Melissa Kruger:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s the exact same. The cost is, our happiest place, we were talking earlier, is our back porch. And the happiest of that happy place is when everybody’s home. And it’ll just be a long time.

Michael Kruger:
It’ll be a long time when we get the whole family together.

Melissa Kruger:
So it’s a cost, but goodness. It’s like, “Well, the Lord has stuff for us to do, so we need to be busy with that, and the Lord has stuff for them to do, and we need to be busy with that.” The fields are white for harvest. So it may be emptier in certain ways, and that’s part of the cost. There’s always a cost.
But he who gave his own Son, how can he not also give us all things, who we can trust, that what’s given in this life is just insignificant, in light of what we’ve been given?
But yeah, I mean, there will be tears at Christmas and Easters, and when we’re at the beach together, and they’re not there. C.S. Lewis talks about when one of his friends died, he said, “You would think, oh, now I had more of my other two friends.” And he said, “But I actually had less of them. Because I’ll never see how this friend lights up, when this friend makes a joke again.” So I think it’s like that with our families.
When they’re all together, there’s a fullness, that you see how they interact, and the things go on, and that will be lessened, just with one gone, and so …

Michael Kruger:
It’s not the same dynamics. It’s like a singing quartet. They talk about how, when four people sing together, they create a fifth voice when they’re unified.
And something else happens, when you bring them all together, that you couldn’t get with just three, or certainly with one. And families are like that, and so, we’re going to miss that.
But I think, part of the thing that will be exciting, too, is the reunions will be extra sweet. And when we are together, I think there’ll be some special depth and joy that wouldn’t have been there, if there hadn’t been some distance.
And the other thing that we are certainly thankful for is, modern technology really helps. When we were living overseas back in the day, there was no internet to speak of, no FaceTime. And so, that will ease it. We know it’s not the same as being there, but it will ease it. So when you said goodbye back then, it was a goodbye.

Melissa Kruger:
Yeah. I mean, even when I was in Ukraine, the whole summer, I couldn’t call or talk to my parents. No letters got through the whole summer, and it was just like, “Wow.”

Michael Kruger:
Yeah, it was a complete blackout.

Melissa Kruger:
“I can’t believe my parents let me do that.” I was maybe 19, and it’s amazing, it was complete … Whereas, we’ll be able to, “I can find my friends.”

David Platt:
Yeah, yeah. You know where she is.

Michael Kruger:
You could send her a text message.

Melissa Kruger:
“Oh, she’s in this airport right now.” You can follow. I mean, when they were just visiting, traveling, and I was like, “Oh, they’re in this country right now.” So that’s a nice gift.

David Platt:
I do think, I’m really glad you guys we’re willing to share, even just about that cost. Because I think about, well, and I don’t want to pile on to that cost, but yeah, I just think about some of my friends who are around the world, and they’re raising kids away from grandparents.
And yeah, there’s definitely a cost. Or they miss out on, parents are struggling in this way, and they would love to be right beside them. And especially in a culture where, oftentimes, we just kind of expect, we’re going to be around the people we are familiar with, or around our hometown, that feels normal for a lot of people. To go totally against the grain, yeah, it does carry a price with it.

Michael Kruger:
Yeah, there’s a price on both sides. There’s a price for the actual missionary on the field. Obviously, that’s a massive price. But then, there’s a price for the people they say goodbye to, and those families left behind. So many people are paying the price for that, and there’s a cost.
But that’s, like we said, I mean, we prayed that prayer in the beginning. It’s a cost, that it’s going to be a heavy cost, but it’s also a cost we’re willing to endure, because we want her to be following Christ wherever he calls her.

David Platt:
Well, and it makes me think of the beautiful and heavy hard gospel goodbyes we see in the Book of Acts, whether it’s Paul and the Ephesian elders. They’re just weeping on each other’s shoulders, but they’re going in different directions.
And I think it comes back to where you started, Melissa, with just talking about eternity in view. Like, okay, we’ve got trillions of years together. We’re going to have sufficient time with each other. And we’ve got a vapor here. And so, how do we just spend this vapor, knowing Jesus, and doing whatever he says to do?
I always think about Numbers 13 and 14, when God’s people they’re on the edge of the Promised Land, and they say, “We can’t go in. It would be too dangerous for our kids. It would not be good for our kids in this place.”
And they’re saying, they’re worried for their kids, in a way that actually leads them to not trusting God. And then, in quite a twist, their kids end up going to the promised land, and none of them end up going.
So they miss out totally, by not trusting God with their kids. So I think it’s safe to say, right, that trusting God with your kids is good for you guys, not just for them. It’s good for you guys too, yeah.

Michael Kruger:
Yeah. I mean, you give up, but Christ promises that whatever you give up, that there’s a backdoor blessing to that, in exponential ways. And you don’t get your life until you lose it. And so, it stings a bit, but we’re trusting that God’s at work in us, and the things we need to let go of, and the things we need to grow in.
And I think that’s a missing piece of a lot of these discussions, too, which is, it’s not just my personal relational well-being that’s at stake, but also, just, God’s at work in other ways, too, so …

David Platt:
I remember one of the first trips I went on that was kind more of a dangerous little, a lot more risk involved with this trip, and this is before kids, this particular trip. But I remember getting on the plane, I’m writing this, just in case kind of letter to Heather, and I’m like, bawling there on the plane. I mean, I’m just losing it.
And I realized, it was one level of surrender to say, “God, I’m going to go on this trip, and I trust you with my life.” It was a whole ‘nother level of surrender to trust God with her life, as I’m thinking, “What if I’m not there to do this or that?” I felt like that was even deeper faith to trust the Lord, the life of somebody you love, even more than my own life. But that was so sanctifying for me. I was like, “Whoa, this is deeper surrender than even, I thought it was surrender to go on this trip for myself.” But it was actually more surrender, in a way, that brought me closer to Jesus, by trusting the Lord with her.

Melissa Kruger:
And what we get to taste, a little bit, I mean, just a little bit. I mean, what did God do? He sent his only Son. I mean, so all of these are invitations to know the love of the Father more, right? Because when we feel the pain of that, we’re like, “Oh, I can go to you with this. You know what this is like; this is not a suffering you have not endured. To send your Son for the world, and for all of our redemption.” In some ways, he invites us to know him more by our experiences in life.
And he chose to do it for us. We wouldn’t choose this, in a lot of ways, but it really is, I think, an invitation. All of this, we think of parenting as, “We’re trying to get our kids to know the Lord, but it’s actually an invitation for us to know the Lord, in new ways.”

Michael Kruger:
Yeah. I would say, one of the other aspects here that I think gets missing in these discussions, is that when you do this sort of travel, and have people out in other places, and you’re not settled, and not everybody’s home, there is a sense in which that is our identity right now as Christians, right? We are sort of sojourners.
And there’ll be a time when we’re home, in the new Heavens, and the new Earth. This isn’t that time. So, inasmuch as you feel disconnected, and on the move, and always traveling, and never settled, there’s a sense in which that’s what we’re made for right now.

Michael Kruger:
And one of the things I’ve been able to do in my academic space is work on early Christianity. One of the things I always knew about early Christianity, from Paul on, is that the travel that they engaged in was amazing. It’s because they didn’t even have the conveniences of our modern world, but the Christians were known for being travelers, and actually, wrote a little blog post not long ago about this, where I riffed off of the Moana theme is basically, “We were voyagers. That’s the Christian identity, we’re voyagers. And so, there’ll be a time when we’re settled, but this isn’t that time.”
And so, inasmuch as people feel like, “Well, I guess I’m in this life of travel and moving, and never settled, I’m like, “Yup, that’s exactly right. That’s what we’re about.”

David Platt:
Yes, yes. This is the Christian life.

Michael Kruger:
This is the Christian life.

David Platt:
We’re alien strangers here.

Michael Kruger:
And so, people who try to make home to homey, I think, miss that, so …

David Platt:
Oh, wow. Man, there’s a lot there. To live like this world’s not our home. And to then parent kids to see, this world’s not our home. Yeah. That’s good. Oh, there’s so much there. I want to give you guys final words to be thinking about. What have we not talked about, that would be particular, that you’d want to include in this conversation?
But I would just say, in my time with the Lord specifically, over the last week or so, and wrestling through some parenting things, it’s been such a comfort to be reminded in a fresh way, just in my time with God. Just him saying, “Yeah, I’m a father. I know this ache, I know this hurt.”
And just to identify, that’s when I was listening to you talk about, God sent his son, but to realize, “Yes, we’re not parenting alone.” We know that, we know that we have the Holy Spirit in us, but we have a Parent, a perfect Father, who promises to give us everything we need, as Mom and Dad, to do this work.
And he does this work perfectly, as our father. So all right, what have we not talked about that would be helpful to insert into this conversation?

Michael Kruger:
Well, we covered a lot of ground. I don’t know that I have anything. Do you know anything?

Melissa Kruger:
I know. I’ll just say the last thing, especially for someone within the teen years, I think these can be years of feeling like, Psalm 66 says, “We went through fire and through water,” but then, it says, “Yet you have brought us out to a place of abundance.”
And I think, these years, just remember, they’re short. And so a, child might be really rebellious in them. You might be like, “Oh, yeah, I wish my child was reading the Bible, or walking with the Lord, or whatever.” I would just say, again, the Word, prayer, and church. Keep those center, and trust the Lord that this isn’t their story.
The decisions they’re making right now, what you’ve invested in them in the early years, all of those things are there hidden in their heart, and can come back, and be such a blessing to them. It’s still a blessing that they’ve grown up in a Christian home, and that the Word has been before them their whole life.
And so, I always just want to say, to a parent who’s just struggling in the teen years, some of this really is developmental. And it will shift. So today’s not the end of the child’s story. And so, I always just like to say …

Michael Kruger:
Yeah, it’s the long play.

Melissa Kruger:
There really is hope that the Lord is doing something, and he’s doing something in our hearts, in that, yeah.

David Platt:
That’s so good. If I could just put an exclamation point on that, and one, I’m smiling, because it’s such a good word.
Yeah, it’s because you have these thoughts. “I just can’t picture this forever like this, at 30 or 40,” but it’s like, okay, you’re not supposed to, this is this age.
But I think about one particular young adult, who was just recently baptized in our church family. She heard the gospel growing up all her life, and it was going to church, the Word, prayer, and church, saturated in it, not following Jesus.
And then, she comes one Sunday, first Sunday at church, she hears the same gospel she’s heard her all her life. And she trusts in Jesus. And to talk to her dad, who is like, “I feel like I’m talking with somebody who’s been walking with Jesus for a long time,” because all those seeds from the Word are there.
And so, just to plant those with hope, like you said.

Melissa Kruger:
Yeah. I mean, that’s what Paul said to Timothy. “You’ve known the Scripture since infancy, which are able to make you wise for salvation.” So it’s still a gift. They’re hidden there. They’re able to make them wise one day.

David Platt:
It’s good. It’s really good. Well, thank both of you guys, on multiple levels. One, for being obedient to Jesus, walking with Jesus, and going wherever he leads you, Scotland, Cambridge, just every step of the way. And I pray that it’ll be all the more so in the days to come, for praying that over your kids, from pregnancy, and for the fruit of that. Praise God.
And then, for the fruit, I just think you’ve mentioned the word hope so many times, parenting with hope like Melissa Kruger. I just would encourage, commend, Michael and Melissa have done tons of stuff along these lines.
Thank you guys for writing books, for just resourcing parents in this way, and resourcing the church, and all the ways that you are resourcing the church, to trust the Word, and to learn from the ancient church, as we walk with Jesus in contemporary days.
So, praise God for his grace, and your lives and your family that’s bearing fruit among the nations. May it be so, in the days to come, in greater ways than you could ask or imagine.
Thank you.